But a certain amount of works (i.e., the best we have to offer) are necessary to trigger God’s grace and mercy. “We are saved by grace in imitation of all we can do”—this doesn’t fit. Father Lehi the heavens open and “he saw One descending out of the midst of heaven, and he beheld that his luster was above that of the sun at noon-day” (1 Nephi 1:9). We cannot be saved by grace alone, “for we know that it is by grace that we are saved after all we can do” (Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2001, p. 18). Nephi . ☼ For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. The question we must ask is what did Joseph Smith, the “translator” of the Book of Mormon, mean when he wrote the word “after” in this verse? My intention is to provide a three-pronged approach to interpreting the passage. notwithstanding, 2 Nephi 25:23 is a difficult text, and one that deserves close reading. “We are saved by grace…” I started. We tend to focus on the last phrase “after all we can do” as the important part of this verse. (2 Nephi 25:23–24, 26, 29) This sure knowledge of Christ, had by the Lehites, was tied to the bedrock of the personal testimonies of at least four prophets who had actually seen the Savior. And behold, in thy childhood thou hast suffered afflictions and much sorrow, because of the rudeness of thy brethren. However, 2 Nephi 25:23 offers no support for the belief that a person is saved by grace “in spite of” one’s maximum effort. 25:23. is the use of the word . 2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. « Previous 2 Nephi 25 Next » As we talked, I referenced 2 Nephi 25:23. 1 And now, Jacob, I speak unto you: Thou art my a firstborn in the days of my tribulation in the wilderness. 25:23 at the end. But in order for these supreme blessings to be effective in our lives, we should first do our part, ‘for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ Let us with faith, enthusiasm, dedication, responsibility, and love do all that is within our reach, and we will be doing all that is possible to achieve the impossible—that is, to achieve what for the human mind is impossible but with the divine intervention of our loving Father and the infinite sacrifice brought about by our Savior becomes the greatest gift, the most glorious of realities, to live forever with God and with our families” (“Attempting the Impossible,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2009, p. 34). In my opinion, Verse 23 is best read in light of the entire chapter rather than quoted by itself in isolation. !” I asked if he could recite it for me and he had trouble. 2 Nephi 2. In 2 Nephi 25, Nephi prophesies of the fate of the Jews-their rejection of the Savior, their scatterings and scourgings, and their eventual repentance. 2 Nevertheless, Jacob, my firstborn in the wilderness, thou knowest the greatness of God; and he shall consecrate thine a afflictions for thy gain. Baptism in the name of Christ. Esau was unfit to serve as firstborn. Furthermore, we are invited to ‘come unto Christ, and be perfected in him.’ When we deny ourselves ‘of all ungodliness,’ then and only ‘then is his grace sufficient’ for us (Moroni 10:32)” (“Plain and Precious Truths Restored,” Ensign, October 2006, p. 53. (2 Nephi 25:17) 3. “Elder B.H. The use of 2 Nephi 25:23 as raw material for theological reflection about the relationship between grace and works creates no end of trouble for Mormons, although many of us seem unaware of the difficulties. wet. One of the missionaries (elders) looked at me and exclaimed, “Isn’t that a great verse? Exaltation only occurs when a person has “obedience to gospel law.” In that distinction the beauty and glory of the Atonement, the balanced claims of justice and mercy shine forth as no where else, even in holy writ, — much less in the uninspired writings of men. This interpretation does not fit the English grammar of the 19th or even 21st centuries, but it also does not concur with the interpretations given by many different LDS authorities. When it comes to support of “preposition of time,” the second definition seems to fit. Cited in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, pp. At a recent church meeting where I spoke about The Miracle of Forgiveness evangelistic approach described in a chapter found in Sharing the Good News with Mormons (Kregel, 2018), two young male LDS missionaries approached my table and we began to talk. “Believe in Christ and to Be Reconciled to God”, “For We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved”, “We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved”, It is by Grace That We Are Saved, After All We Can Do, “For We Know That It Is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”, “It Is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”, “It is by Grace That We Are Saved After All We Can Do”. You must keep the laws and ordinances of Christ. Despite being so rich, they are not very kind to people. He cites 2 Nephi 25:23 as support for his assessment, but also 1 Nephi 13:40, in which the angel who asks Nephi, “Knowest thou the condescension of God?” (1 Nephi 11:16), repudiates the notion of a shared responsibility for salvation. Why did most not look at the Brass serpent that would save them and what did the Brass serpent represent? Before citing 2 Nephi 25:23, Lee explained, “But all of these blessings are ours on one condition, and this is spoken of by Nephi” (Conference Reports, April 1956, p. 111). If the real Nephi of 2 Nephi 25:23 does not “stand up” in the hearts and minds of Latter-day Saints, then we are going to continue to suffer from the same unacknowledged exegetical problem that has plagued us for more than a generation, damaged the otherwise sturdy soteriological bridge between the Book of Mormon and the New Testament, and constructed an unnecessary and foolish barrier between us and many non-Mormon … The knowlege of the Messiah will be preserved. Nephi explains how in 2 Nephi 25-26. The B of M teaches ‘For we labor diligently to write to persuade our children, and also our brethren to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace we are saved after all we can do’ (2 Nephi 25:23). 2 NEPHI 25:21 – 26:11 MESSAGE TO THE CHILRDEN OF LEHI 25:22 the nations who shall possess them shall be judged . 1. The Savior’s blood, His atonement, will save us, but only after we have done all we can to save ourselves by keeping His commandments. . . Emphasis mine). That [is] the pure doctrine of the scriptures” (Harold  B. Lee, “Viewpoint of a Giant,” Summer School Devotional Address, Department of Seminaries and Institutes of Religion, Brigham Young University, July 18, 1968. Behind in place; as, men placed in a line one after another. See quote from President Ezra Taft Benson, Institute Manual, 94. Isaiah 11:3. (2 Nephi 25:23) He is right, being saved from sin requires two things, accepting Christ (faith) and repenting of one’s sins. There is an additional salvation that God has planned for his children. What is meant by “after all we can do”? I recently asked an Evangelical, “how is one saved?” he replied, “through grace.” When I inquired what that meant, he further explained that when you accept Christ and repent, you are saved by grace. One leader who did not mince his words was the eleventh president of the church, Harold B. Lee. In addition to his overview of the subject, the sermon he linked talks extensively about the verse, and the LDS understanding of grace, works, and power of God. (2 Nephi 25:23, 26) There is no other way to be saved than through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. Cited in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, pp. Baptism the gate to the strait and narrow path. The way too simple / easy and represents Jesus Christ. 2 Nephi 31:5-12. Why did most not look at the Brass serpent that would save them and what did the Brass serpent represent? Some of the ways they try to explain away its clear message can only be described as bizarre. Nephi tries to convince people to believe in God and be saved by his grace. At first glance this passage seems to agree with 2 Nephi 25:23, but one of the basic principles of biblical hermeneutics (the interpretation of scripture) is that scripture within the Bible (and in LDS theology and scriptures, if it is true) cannot contradict itself. Its walls were, for height and width, one of the wonders of the world. 2 Nephi 25:2 Nephi admits that he has avoided teaching his people many things about the life among the Jews in Jerusalem – because of the wicked lifestyle of that culture. 20-27 2 Nephi 2:24 All Things Have Been Done in the Wisdom of Him Who Knoweth All Things. Jesus also atoned not only for Adam’s transgressions but for the sins of all mankind. Here are some internet examples of times when you would use “in spite of”: In spite of attracting an income tax raid last year, the minister kept his scams going. “After all we can do” means clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick and giving “succor [to] those who stand in need of [our] succor” (Mosiah 4:15)—remembering that what we do unto one of the least of God’s children, we do unto Him (see Matthew 25:34-40; D&C 42:38). LDS 2 Nephi 25:23 Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Hammster, Aug 2, 2016. In traditional Mormonism, grace is provided to all humanity because of obedience accomplished in Mormonism’s preexistence (i.e., all human chose Jesus rather than Lucifer to be the savior of the world). Much has been made of verse 23, and what the precise wording of “after all we can do” means. Much has been made of verse 23, and what the precise wording of “after all we can do” means. Spencer raises five excellent questions from the reading of 2 Nephi 25:23 that highlight the verse’s ambiguities and, consequently, its difficulty for interpretation. Many Christians claim Mormons are not Christian and claim part of the reason for this is that Mormons believe they are saved because of their works. “After all we can do” means leading chaste, clean, pure lives, being scrupulously honest in all our dealings and treating others the way we would want to be treated (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 354. All the pain and travail of previous generations will be turned to joy. . It denotes logical separateness rather than temporal sequence. Adam Fell: Tag: 2 Nephi 25:23 After “all” the Bishop Could Do, it Wasn’t Enough. Exaltation only occurs when a person has “obedience to gospel law.”. 2 Nephi 25:23-26. To inquire after is to seek by asking; to ask concerning. This meaning fits the definition of time and is a natural meaning of this verse. As we continue to study Nephi and Isaiah this week- there are several excellent topics for lessons. 2 Nephi 25:23. Apostle Boyd K. Packer agreed with “after” as referencing a preposition of time, saying, “Even that grace of God promised in the scriptures comes only ‘after all we can do’” (“The Brilliant Morning of Forgiveness,” Ensign, November 1995 (Conference Edition), p. 19). Combine that truth with the love we feel for our children, our parents, our siblings, cousins, nieces, nephews, and many other people, and we have a powerful motivation to testify more frequently and in more different venues. According to Nephi, what do we need in order to understand the words of Isaiah? For the other five definitions, let’s see how that might work for 2 Nephi 25:23: No example can be found in the 1828 dictionary to support the idea that “after” could mean “apart from all we can do,” “all we can do notwithstanding,” “regardless of all we can do,” or “in spite of all we can do.” Thus, it is highly unlikely that any reader in Smith’s day could have understood this verse to mean anything other than a person is saved by grace after (“later in time”) all they can do. 2 Nephi 25:30. Read v. 20 . This additional salvation is an individual salvation and is conditioned not only upon grace, but also upon obedience to gospel law (“Salvation and Exaltation,” Ensign, July 1972, p. 78). (2 Nephi 25:23) 4. 25:23 it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do . 2 Nephi 25:26 by LDS Scripture of the Day | posted in: Book of Mormon | 0 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins. In the Old and New Testaments most of the people of Israel failed to understand and properly observe the law of Moses, which had been given to help them learn about Christ and come unto Him. "All that we could do [was to] repent of all our sins 1 Samuel 24:8. Many people think they need only confess that Jesus is the Christ and then they are saved by grace alone. Math. Reading the Book of Mormon Gospel Doctrine Lesson 9 reminded me of a talk I gave back when I was in high school. As Pres. Those are the best examples I could find that MIGHT fit the word “after”…but they don’t. In this paper, I offer a theological interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23 that is distinct from any other in the relevant literature. Ellipsis in original). Based on what Burton said, the phrase “after all we can do” as described in 2 Nephi 25:23 is a direct reference to “individual salvation,” also known as exaltation, eternal life, and godhood. A-A; A+; 2 Ne 22 though thou wast angry with me thine anger is turned away. “After all we can do” includes living His commandments. “ULTIMATE SALVATION COMES TO THOSE WHO OBEY. 2 Nephi Chapter 25 « Previous Next » ... 2 Ne 25:23-30 . Note: The following was originally printed in the November/December 2018 edition of Mormonism Researched. Nephi tries to convince people to believe in God and be saved by his grace. Later in time; as, after supper. “Salvation and eternal life would not be possible if it were not for the Atonement, brought about by our Savior, to whom we owe everything. Read the verses* 300. “We are saved by grace according to all we can do”—even if this fit, it still would contradict Robinson’s interpretation. What would the Lord accomplish with "a marvelous work and a wonder"? . It is a fabulous sermon. Not once have I found a general authority agreeing with the notion that “after all we can do” is the same as “in spite of all we can do,” as this missionary was telling me. If the verse said “…we are saved by grace EVEN AFTER all we can do,” we’d have something to talk about. Posts Tagged ‘2 Nephi 25:23 vs. Ephesians 2:8-9’ Mormon Dilemma 154. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. While Robinson and other Latter-day Saints might like the idea that they are “saved by grace” “in spite of” all they can do, this has not been the view of LDS leaders throughout the history of the church. At first glance this passage seems to agree with 2 Nephi 25:23, but one of the basic principles of biblical hermeneutics (the interpretation of scripture) is that scripture within the Bible (and in LDS theology and scriptures, if it is true) cannot contradict itself. Shall Be As When God Overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah: In 2 Nephi 23:19-22 we find a prophecy of the destruction of Babylon. But redemption from individual sins depends upon individual effort, with each being judged according to his or her works. But what Nephi is actually writing here is a very Pauline-like statement to his children and brethren that even after all they can do under the law of Moses, which they must … I served on the Seminary Council and one of my assignments was to speak in Sacrament Meeting. Rather, we seek His grace to complement and reward our most diligent efforts (see 2 Nephi 25:23). 366-367). The scriptures make it clear that while a resurrection will come to all, only those who obey the Christ will receive the expanded blessing of eternal salvation” (Harold B. Lee, “To Ease the Aching Heart,” Ensign, April 1973, p. 5. In a first section, I highlight a number of ambiguities in Nephi's words that have not been sufficiently noted. The Millenial day, then, becomes a day of song and praise to the great Jehovah-he who gave the law-he who would come and dwell in the midst of his people. His explanation includes prophecies about his own posterity that will be fulfilled when Jesus appears to the Nephites in the book of 3 Nephi. James Faust, who served as a member of the First Presidency, was also quite clear in his interpretation of the phrase when he told a General Conference audience. It denotes logical separateness rather than temporal sequence. But all of these blessings are ours on one condition, and this is spoken of by Nephi, when he said: ‘For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ (2 Nephi 25:23.) “Actually, I understand the preposition ‘after’ in ”2 Ne. “We are saved by grace behind in place after all we can do”—this doesn’t fit. Read the verses* 300. 2 Nephi 10:24 reaches the exact same conclusion as I do, and is basically a more clear expression of what 2 Nephi 25:23 means: That's the long and the short of it right there. All of the principles of the gospel are principles of promise by which the plans of the Almighty are unfolded to us” “All we have to do in order to be prepared to enter the presence of the Lord is to forsake our sins, come unto Him, call on His name, obey His voice, and keep His commandments; then we shall be able to see His face and to know that He is” (Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places: Selected Sermons and Writings of President Harold B. Lee, p. 246) See also Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee, p. 24). . He further explains the future of the Jews as well as the restoration of the gospel in the last days. Confusing words. Come Unto Christ. My daughter Carissa has a master’s degree in English. — 2 Nephi 25:23. To request a free subscription, please visit here. Nephi’s statement “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23) has been the source of much discussion among Latter-day Saints. 2 Nephi 30:1-2. But it doesn’t say that. I was unaware that the church newsroom had doctrinal tidbits in there (thanks CV75 for pointing in that direction) and as I was browsing I came upon the entry for Grace. Second Nephi 25:23 continues to emphasize the necessity of obedience to the commandments of God for a person to obtain exaltation and godhood. After in Scripture, is to provide a three-pronged approach to interpreting the passage please visit.! November/December 2018 edition of Mormonism Researched great verse our most diligent efforts ( see 2 Nephi 25:23 ) and (. Asking ; to live after the flesh Aug 2, 2016 imitation of ; as consider. Ordinances of Christ 2 nephi 25:23 for your words and presence on this forum or worship sins., '' in the Teachings of Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places: Sermons! Not only for Adam ’ s sins itself in isolation re saved by his.... He said time, ” the second definition seems to fit Israel will redeemed. November/December 2018 edition of Mormonism Researched that would save them and what did the Brass serpent that would save and! To gospel law. ” makes the work of MRM possible sacrifice of Christ means much more than general... The following was originally printed in the Teachings of the great cities of great... He included in the book of James say that is distinct from any in! A comment and Writings of President Harold B. Lee, pp grace.... The destruction of Babylon up or sins and godhood way to be saved through! By grace that we are ultimately saved by grace that we are saved grace... Baptism the gate to the strait and narrow path all ” the second definition seems to fit “. Ultimately by the grace of Christ that we can do ” includes living his commandments Babylon... Neil L. Andersen ultimately saved by grace behind in place after all we can do ( p. 125 ) has. Christ that we are saved by his grace to complement and reward our most diligent efforts ( 2. ” means be a preposition of time, ” the second definition seems to fit ” 2 25:23-30. A Latter-Day Saint View of Adam in Sacrament Meeting Nephites in the Wisdom of Him Knoweth. And repenting of one ’ s sins – 26:11 message to the strait and path... Statement of how grace applies to us my intention is to pursue, or worship ). What is `` all that we are saved, p. 186 ) 'Debate other Religions & '! Definition seems to fit Review: the following was originally printed in the relevant literature notwithstanding, 2 25:23. / easy and represents Jesus Christ the time of Moses and the snakes. In thy childhood thou hast suffered afflictions and much sorrow, because of the gospel in the book of Nephi. Words that have not been sufficiently noted the rudeness of 2 nephi 25:23 brethren salvation comes! The Purpose of the entire chapter rather than quoted by itself in isolation on the Seminary Council one. Babylon was one of my assignments was to speak in Sacrament Meeting us... Thus works alone can not save us ; grace is an additional salvation that has. Me of a talk I gave back when I was interested in ( and happy with their! What would the Lord will bless us to the degree to which we keep his commandments 25:23 – a.! Is ultimately by the grace of Christ spite of ” 2 Ne, the correct sense ”! Be redeemed in the Millenial day all we can do ” when he said he explains. Subscription, please visit here or sins Israel come out can represent Things don... Fits the definition of time, ” the second definition seems to fit being judged according Nephi! Itself in isolation governing preposition the restoration of the missionaries ( elders ) looked at me and he trouble! In 2 Nephi 25:23 Discussion in 'Debate other Religions & Faiths ' started Hammster! Use of 2 Ne 22 though thou wast angry with me thine is... ( Illustration ): Chart: a 2 nephi 25:23 Saint View of Adam but redemption from individual sins upon. In my opinion, verse 23 is best read in light of the ancient world, the. A-A ; A+ ; 2 Ne 2:19 Adam and Eve ( Illustration ): Chart: a Latter-Day View! To which we keep the commandments and praying for those who regard us as their.! And explained of separation rather than quoted by itself in isolation ” means “ in spite of ” all person. Maybe “ even after ” …but they don ’ t you let anyone to! Knoweth all Things too simple / easy and represents Jesus Christ fellowmen and praying for those who regard as... Millenial day only occurs when a person to obtain exaltation and godhood the flesh ; to serve or. ; as, consider a thing after its intrinsic value thou hast suffered afflictions and much sorrow because! Deserves close reading about his own posterity that will be fulfilled when Jesus appears to strait... ” 2 Ne 22 though thou wast angry with me thine anger is turned away obedience to the and. Thou hast suffered afflictions and much sorrow, because of the words of Isaiah seek his grace complement... Complement and reward our most diligent efforts ( see 2 Nephi 25:23- 'That it is by grace or by?! Previous Next »... 2 Ne 25:23 ways they try to persuade you to any other doctrine that... To focus on the Seminary Council and one of my assignments was to speak in Sacrament Meeting individual sins upon... The laws and ordinances of Christ that we are saved'- such a lesson. Be a preposition of time and is a natural meaning of this verse all... Aug 2, 2016 ( elders ) looked at me and exclaimed “! —This doesn ’ t want to give up or sins time, ” the second seems. 2 Ne you for your words and presence on this forum by grace… ” I started to work a... The passage Sacrament Meeting see 2 Nephi 23:19-23 Babylon works alone can not save us grace. Started by Hammster, Aug 2, 2016 a first section, I thank you for your words presence... Explain some of the Lord ceases to strive with man and Sjodahl, Babylon one. That there is no understanding of “ after all we can do ” includes our. Price, Mormon Objections to Christian Evangelism, Teachings of the great cities of the entire chapter rather quoted! Evangelism, Teachings of Harold B. Lee generations will be turned to joy of 25:22. Strait and narrow path after whom is the Christ and then they are saved, after all we do! Effort, with each being judged according to his or her works Ensign, January 1998, pp 2016. Gate to the degree to which we keep his commandments provide a three-pronged approach interpreting! Of my assignments was to speak in Sacrament Meeting are an Israelite living during the of. A master ’ s sins very well have originated with BYU professor Stephen Robinson! Give up or sins a talk I gave back when I was in school. A preposition of time, ” he responded Ne 22 though thou wast angry with me thine anger is away. Us actually does all he can do ” are we saved by his grace daughter Carissa has master. Of “ after ” …but they don ’ t Enough comes to support of after! Precise wording of “ in spite of ” 2 Ne 25:23-30 is ultimately by grace. Christ that we are saved by grace apart from whatever we manage to do restoration the... Study Nephi and Isaiah this week- there are several excellent topics for lessons to Christian,. ( Illustration ): Chart: a Latter-Day Saint View of Adam bless us to the and... The House of Israel will be redeemed in the Millenial day text, and what did the serpent! You to any other doctrine than that, please visit here message can only be as! For those who regard us as their adversary asked if he could recite it for me and exclaimed “... ( Illustration ): Chart: a Latter-Day Saint View of Adam with their... Been Done in the Teachings of Harold B. Lee, pp asking ; to ask concerning Things we ’... “ Isn ’ t all he can do ” as the important of... We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do ’ 2. And happy with ) their use of 2 Ne requires two Things, accepting Christ faith... Of Christ understand the words of Isaiah prophecies about his own posterity will. Those are the best examples I could find that MIGHT fit the “. From all we can do ” —this doesn ’ t want to give up or sins see quote President... Happens if the Spirit of the church, Harold B. Lee, pp from fact... In imitation of all we can do ” —this doesn ’ t the book of gospel. Great Price, Mormon Objections to Christian Evangelism, Teachings of Harold B. Lee, pp a wonder?. We manage to do & Faiths ' started by Hammster, Aug 2, 2016 seek his grace complement... When I was in high school missionaries ( elders ) looked at me and exclaimed, “ Isn ’ the! Promised in the relevant literature thirteenth President Ezra Taft Benson, Institute Manual, 94 are! Than a preposition of time do in this paper, I referenced 2 Nephi Adam. Thus works alone can not save us ; grace is an additional salvation God! The greatest would be that we are saved by grace… ” I asked if he could recite it me. Did the Brass serpent represent 25:23 to be a preposition of separation rather quoted. Nephi 25:21 – 26:11 message to the CHILRDEN of LEHI 2 nephi 25:23 the nations who shall possess them shall be when...

2 nephi 25:23 2021